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GLBT Baha'is and their allies

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A (possibly controversial) question [16 Jan 2008|12:30pm]

cd_lind
[ mood | curious ]

I'm interested in seeing how many GLBTQ Bahá'ís feel that the Teachings are right when it comes to "non-heterosexual" sex/love, and our behavior/feelings are wrong, and vice versa...

I think that these are the two major "ways" a GLBTQ Bahá'í can go, and I'm curious to hear how others feel abot it.

5 comments|post comment

I Don't Know. [17 Oct 2007|01:09am]

yogurtrifle
This has been a long time in coming, I think.

As far as I know, the only requirements for being a Baha'i...Collapse )
12 comments|post comment

Newbie [07 Oct 2007|11:52am]

cd_lind
[ mood | confused ]

I don't know whether to be happy or sad to see that this community is so quiet, but at least I'm here now.

*waves* Hi all, I'm Ceci and I'm a bisexual Bahá'í. ["Hi Ceci" *g*]

I became a Bahá'í at the age of 15 for various reasons. I agreed with the teachings and all, up to the point of chastity...which I've always struggled with. But I've also always swept those doubts under the rug, taking my feelings for women and need for physical contact with it (how I love hugs, cuddling, and kisses, and I want it all NOW! Man, woman, I don't care as long as it's someone I like who likes me back...but I became the Ice Queen for 15 years). But two days ago, it all came out, and while I'm confused about what this wil mean re: my membership in the Bahá'í Community (ie, can I stay, and if I don't, can my Bahá'í friends accept it?), it does feel good to have it out in the open at last (15 years...amazing).

8 comments|post comment

Confusion [11 Jun 2007|06:32pm]

in_shane
[ mood | sad ]

Exploring Baha'i
I have been exploring Baha'i through reading what few books I can find locally as well as all information on the internet.  My search for spiritually has led me from Christianity, to Buddhism, to Unitarian Universalism, Scientology (brief stint...lapse in judgement...I can admit!)...I have studied what it means to be a Christian, Buddhist, UU-ist, and even a Scientologist....
Finally! I found Bahai and felt that I had connected to myself and to "the path" I was supposed to take...the truth!
however, I also spent 17 years of my life in the search for who I am as a person.  The simple fact is that  I am a gay man...AND finally after many years of self-hate and denial...I am happy with that aspect of myself.  I am no longer ashamed. OUT and Proud.
The sadness I feel now is that the pride I feel about acceptance of myself is in direct conflict with Baha'i Faith.  I want to learn, explore, grow, and connect with the Baha'i faith.  However, I have come to find that being a gay Baha'i means (to me) more hiding, more secrets, more shame...confusion.   Any one with any comments please help me to come to terms with this confusion.
3 comments|post comment

the prophets of the Bahai's... [08 Jun 2007|09:52am]

heartwork
[ mood | pissed off ]

When I talked to the Baha'i woman this week about their prejudice against gays and lesbians, she said Baha'ullah knew it was genetic because he spoke for God.  The Baha'is believe that all the prophets have come to bring God to people of those times.  Moses, Muhammed, Christ, are all considered prophets by Baha'is.

If Baha'ullah knew all there is to know about homosexuality, does that mean Muhammed and Moses were also correct about the idea that gays and lesbians should be beaten or killed for being gay and lesbian?  Does it mean that the countries who currently execute gays and lesbians are justified because they are following the Quran? 

Were Muhammed and Moses and Baha'ullah talking to the people of their time?  Are we to follow what they suggest we do?  Do you think gays and lesbians should be executed for loving someone of the same gender?

(please feel free to post this on other forums and, if i may ask, would you include a link to those forums, etc., in comments to this post so i can follow them).

1 comment|post comment

love vs. sex / advancement of society [05 Jun 2007|04:03pm]

heartwork
i'm so upset right now after touching base to ask what progress has been made among baha'is regarding homosexuality.  a decade ago, i joined the baha'i faith, never even bringing up that i had chosen another woman as my life partner.  i never thought to ask bahais with their pride in feeling all are equal would kick me out if i was gay.  wow. 

i wouldn't have a problem with celibacy, but  the sad thing is gays aren't asking for the right to have sex, they are asking for the right to love and the acknowledgement that our love is valid and worthy.  what is the current status of gay bahais having sex in netherlands after they marry?  if it's the fact we are not married by our government that makes gay sex wrong, what about the fact my union was blessed by a christian minister. 
when i go through the laws of the old testament, i knew it was spoken in a way that the people of that time could understand.   thank God we don't practice all of them in the u.s. or other civilized societies anymore.  baha'ullah felt that the prophets helped the people of that time according to their ability to understand.  that is one reason i'm surprised they consider this is "written in stone".  since baha'ullah has been here, what about the other prophets? 

i'm referring to the woman who penned the Course In Miracles, Neale Douglas Walsch and for all we know, Matisyahu and Martin Luther King are modern day prophets.   who decides for baha'is when other prophets have brought a new message from God.

also, was baha'ullah God or a prophet of God?  and were all those who transcribed his words writing with the pens of their times or computers?  and does that matter?  yes, it does.  a prophet is not God and doesn't have the ability to say in 2007, science will show there is a genetic reason people drink or drug.  there are genes that show why someone chooses a partner of the same gender or opposite gender.

i think it's CRUCIAL that we begin referring to our relationships in terms of "gender preference" rather than "sex preference".   gays know that same sex love is about love  not sex, but straights who are against us...latch on to the sex part of same sex.  that's the first step in getting the focus off sex and onto love.

i also think that bahai's defending baha'ullah's sentence or two on homosexuality remember to make drugging and drinking a separate thing  than loving a partner who is of the same gender.  i was told by a baha'i today that baha'ullah knew about genes because he was speaking for God.  if that was true, why didn't God tell him how to build a microscope to diagnose malaria?  or knowledge of pasteurization and  and cat scans or medications for brain disorders?  you can't say you're pro-technology and quote baha'ullah speaking to a people who knew nothing about genetics or cures or misfiring neurons.  he was too busy trying to get rid of slaves and the ownership of wives. 

Lord help us all.

thanks for listening.  please respond.  i'm trying so hard to grasp this from another angle than my own.
1 comment|post comment

A survey [02 Apr 2007|12:03pm]

mt_st_helens
In an effort to better understand the real-life relationship of homosexuality to the Baha'i Faith, I have created a brief (10-question) poll and posted it to ljbahai. Please take the time to fill it out if you can. I will be sure to report back on my findings once I've received enough responses. If anyone can think of additional questions that would add to the usefulness of the feedback, please let me know.

Thanks!
post comment

The Baha'i Faith and Homosexuality [30 Mar 2007|12:20am]

keiscorner
[ mood | tired ]

http://www.yearoffaith.net/2007/03/28/the-bahai-faith-and-homosexuality/#more-63

Any comments? Forgive my brevity, but I already gave a small little comment on his site already, and as tired as I am, I would be interested to see other people's beliefs into this particular thing.

3 comments|post comment

Where are the People? [19 Mar 2007|09:43am]

kaigan9
[ mood | curious ]

Hi Folks,

Hmm, this forum also seems to be pretty dead. I wonder where all the people are? I really got to get a MySpace up. There are just literally thousands and thousands of Gay Baha'is. Hmm, maybe something a liitle happier and positive thinking. I think MySPace might be able to do that.

Anyway, topic topic topic, what shall I write? Actually one question I do have is..... (but not in the form of a question) I am wondering how many Baha'is have same sex relationships with other Baha'is. Yup, like Gay Boyfreinds or Gay Girlfriends. I rarely read about that.

Just curious how that one goes over.

1 comment|post comment

[25 Feb 2007|10:10am]

kaigan9
Hi Folks,

I just stumbled across this and decided to join and introduce myself. I briefly looked on myspace, but didn't find anything Gay-Baha'i related. Me, I am just looking for some interesting posts and conversation. I am, well, yup a Gay Baha'i. From what I can tell, no big deal on this forum. That's always good of course. The short story; was straight, now gay. Simple as that. lol Didn't want to be Gay, but now no problem. A non issue depending on the situation. I am (I think) very active in the Faith, love it, no problems there. I have a BF. Love him no problems there. Um, yeah, just looking to meet some interesting Baha'is from around the world who just happen to be Gay or Lesbian.

I am just up for some good people, good times and positive attitudes.

Has anyone hought of creating a myspace space? Hmm, maybe I should do that.

D
23 comments|post comment

I am bahai [10 Jan 2007|10:29pm]
kushtarbahai
but I am not sure who I am - hetero, or bi or gay.
5 comments|post comment

[09 Nov 2006|12:22am]

yogurtrifle
Well, what DO the Writings say on homosexuality? What does Baha'ullah say on homosexuality? And is His writings context-less, or are they eternal and unchangeable?

Since we know that Baha'u'llah is the most recent Manifestation and not the final one (since there will never BE a "final" Manifestation) we can say that His words should have a context and a place. After all, we know that some teachings were only applicable to believers of a certain place (like the believers of the East), whereas believers in another place (like the West) were exempt from them. Also, Baha'u'llah says plainly that we shouldn't take everything literally. So what does he write on homosexuality?

We shrink, for very shame, from treating of the subject of boys.

(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 58)


He talks about pederasty, and as we all know, pedophilia is not a gay thing. Homosexual people are NOT child molestors. The majority of child molestors are heterosexual. Also:

The House of Justice comments that while there is little in Bahá'í literature that specifically points to the causes of homosexuality itself, there is much that concerns the nature of man, his inner life and growth, and the way to a true Bahá'í life.

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 367)


So the Writings discuss pedersaty and don't really mention homosexuality much at all. Obviously it wasn't a HUGE DEAL, whereas backbiting is mentioned MUCH more often and in MUCH stronger terms. Baha'ui'llah says that the love between two people on the same sex can be just as fine as the love between two people of the other sex. Continuing in this vein, the Community is not to chastise a person who is homosexual unless their conduct reaches the point of "insanity".

So already we can see that Baha'u'llah never mentioned homosexuality in any serious context and commands people to keep their noses in their own business, as well as saying that homosexual love can be as ideal as heterosexual love.

I read the Writings and I used the God-given intelligence I have to conclude that in the context of 19th century Persia it simply wasn't acceptable to say that homosexuality was A-OK, but Baha'u''llah does everything short of say that. He never mentions homosexuality, only pedersatry which some people have interpreted to mean homosexuality, he says that love between two people of the same gender can just as valid as heterosexual love, and he commands people to keep their noses in their own business. I don't accept the interpretation of pederasty = homosexuality. Furthermore, He doesn't really mention homosexuality. Obviously there are more important matters on God's mind than the genitals of the person that you love.

I may be wrong and I accept it, but I can hardly believe a loving God would say "Well, you lived a great life where you were nice to people, you never back-bit, you were gentle and treated other people well. BUT you fell in love with someone who shared the same genitals as you. YOU SUCK."

Just my thoughts. :3
9 comments|post comment

Courtesy of khoshtip [21 Jun 2006|01:13pm]

mt_st_helens
khoshtip suggested some topics for discussion in another thread. I thought I'd repost them here so more people could find them.

Ready, set, RESPOND!

Your friendly (and apparently a little lazy) mod,
mt_st_helens

_____________________


(1)How many Gay Bahais are there actually?

(2)What did Bahaullah and AbdulBaha actually say about homosexuality.

(3)What has Shoghi Effendi and the House of Justice said about this subject

(4)What are the practices of Auxillary board members towards GayBahais.

(5)Experiences of homosexual Bahais

(6)Reconciling living a Bahai life, and living a Gay life.

(7)etc.
7 comments|post comment

[19 Apr 2006|04:51pm]

yogurtrifle
Hey dudes and dudettes. I just joined and wanted to say hi. I'm a bi Baha'i from british Columbia, Canada.

This place is pretty dead. :/ Surely there're enough issues to start a decent conversation.
15 comments|post comment

[17 Feb 2006|08:33pm]
__deadleaves
I give up.

I tried for too long and I just can't take it anymore. I went and looked at some lez porn (something I wouldn't let myself do) and I really enjoyed it. A lot. I like chicks. I don't like guys.

I lost.

It's not God's fault, it's mine. I'm just too weak.
8 comments|post comment

[25 Oct 2005|01:24am]

ferdette
This is my first time posting here, but I've read through a lot of the posts before, and also through a lot of the readings that have been linked to, etc etc.


Briefly, my story: I grew up Baha'i in an itty bitty Baha'i community (just 2 families, really). The issue of homosexuality and the Faith prohibiting or permitting it never really came up in my community. When I turned 15, I was unsure of whether or not I wanted to declare (I was 15 -- I was unsure about pretty much everything), and so I never signed my card, but I never sent a letter to the UHJ either. I haven't been to a convention since my parents made me go, so I'm pretty sure I'm listed as "inactive" or whatever.
I'm a junior in college now, and just transferred to Smith (a women's college in Northampton, MA). I came out my freshman year, and nobody really gave me a difficult time about it, but I also didn't really identify as much of a Baha'i at that point. Since then, I've re-examined my beliefs, and while I'm not really a super-religious person, I've come to the conclusion that my belief system fits closest with the Faith. The two areas that it comes into conflict, though, are with alcohol and with the pseudo-prohibition on queerness.
The alcohol thing, I'm pretty ambivalent about. I don't really see a problem with it, and I don't believe that it undermines one's spirituality, but I'm not really that attached to it, so I suppose I could go either way.
The queerness part, though, I can't ignore. I'm queer (I don't like the label of "lesbian," although I usually go with it for simplicity's sake), I'm happy being queer, I'm proud of it, and see no reason to change.


Here's the problem though:
Since I told my parents that I started thinking of myself as a Baha'i again, they've been very eager to get me involved in the Baha'i communities where I live - they wanted to contact the Ithaca, NY Baha'i community this summer, but I wasn't really all that interested. I told them they could contact the Northampton community, though, and they did. There are about 5 Smith Baha'is, from what I know, and a relatively large (in comparison with my hometown) Baha'i community here. I've already been invited to a feast (I didn't go because I had a huge paper due the next day), and I got an email today from one of the Smithie Baha'is.
I'm sort of excited to be part of a community again, but I'm also really worried. On the one hand, this is Northampton, which is often referred to as Lesbianville, USA, so I would assume that the Baha'i community would be especially accepting. On the other hand, though, I'm afraid of meeting these people, of being an unabashed lesbian who occasionally drinks, because I'm afraid of being labeled a "bad Baha'i" or not quite Baha'i enough or not committed enough to the Faith to want to change.
I can't imagine these people being homophobic -- you can't live in Northampton and retain any kind of homophobia, really -- but I'm still really worried that they'll expect me to want to change, which I don't.



Has anyone else had any experiences with outwardly liberal/progressive communities? Have they been accepting? Or have they expected you to want to change?
Thanks
3 comments|post comment

A reminder about the community's purpose [24 Jun 2005|12:14pm]

mt_st_helens
In light of recent spam, I just wanted to post a brief reminder of what we are about here. This community is meant to be a place for GLBT Baha'is and their alllies (both Baha'i and not Baha'i) to come to discuss the challenges of negotiating queer and Baha'i identities. While members of this community may be questioning the role of the Baha'i Faith in their lives, posts that encourage criticism of the administrative order and promote unsubstantiated information are OFF TOPIC. This community is meant to create a sense of community where we can all feel welcome - not a place where Baha'is must defend their adherence to Baha'i teachings.

I have, and will continue to, delete posts or ban members who abuse this purpose. Such anti-establishments posts are a distraction from the real purpose of this community, which is to provide support and understanding for one another.

I have added a sentence to this effect in the community profile. I have also added an email address and AIM screenname where I can be contacted with questions.

Please let me know if you guys have anything you want to add to this.

Thanks!
Your mod.
3 comments|post comment

Affinity groups [24 Jun 2005|12:37am]

mt_st_helens
[ mood | curious ]

Since we've all been talking about our therapists...

Mine suggested the other day that I look into GLBT faith groups (such as GLBT Muslim, Orthodeox Jew, or Mormon groups) in the absence of a visible and accessible gay Baha'i group. I was just wondering what you all think of the idea, and if you have had any contact with such groups. I have always had a hard time finding people who could relate to my situation. My liberal friends understood and accepted the gay thing, but didn't understand why I couldn't "re-interpret" my religious teachings. My Baha'i friends....well I imagine they would try to equate gay celibacy with straight pre-marital chastity. Though I don't know any active Muslims who are gay, I have been able to relate to some of my Muslim friends as far as discrepancies between personal life/identity and religious laws/identity are concerned.

Anyway, give me your thoughts on GLBT faith groups...since we don't have any formal Baha'i group.

Thanks!
Your humble mod.

1 comment|post comment

This Sucks. [02 May 2005|11:41am]
__deadleaves
So I've been going to therapy, but I can't help it. I still hate myself for being queer. I just want to dream and think about boys instead of girls. When I talk about it, people just say "OH YOU NEED TO ACCEPT IT IT IS FINE AND NATURAL" but I don't want to accept it.

I want it out.

I have dreams where I have a knife and I'm cutting a black, cancerous thing out of my flesh and I know that it's the liking of other girls that I'm cutting out. When it's out I feel so refreshed and happy, but then I wake up and it's still there.

It's so hard, because I love being a Baha'i and I accept God's word that homosexuality isn't a good thing, but I hate hating myself. I will never leave the Baha'i Faith, because even if I resign I'll still be a Baha'i in my heart.

It's so gross. I hate it. I hate hating myself.

I want to ask God why it pleases Him to see me this way.

Edit: I'm currently 18, and I've known I was this way since... well, since puberty or so. I'm not some moronic teen who thinks being bi or queer is "trendy". I know what I feel, and I don't want to feel this way.
17 comments|post comment

[07 Apr 2005|01:36am]

3dollahsukisuki
[ mood | curious ]

Hey! My name's Jeremy, and I'm very new to the Baha'i Faith, but I already consider myself one, for the most part. It really wasn't that much of a conversion to me, considering that I believed about 95% of it for at least five years. Even though I heard about Baha'i before, I really didn't know anything about it. That was until about a week and a half ago when my school (Kenesaw State University) held an interfaith panel with people of different religions--Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Mormonism, Baha'i, and Paganism. When the Baha'i explained her beliefs, I just thought "Oh my God! That's me!" I walked up to her after the seminar and I told her what I thought and she gave me a book, I forgot who it's by, but it's called God Speaks Again--An Introduction to the Baha'i Faith. The more I read it, the more I was satisfied with the whole religion.

I've gone to a Unitarian Universalist Church now for about a month and a half, and I love it, but it's not quite as spiritual for me. Even thought I feel as though I have already found my own spiritual truths, I wanted structure, and I think Baha'i provides that for me without making me sacrifice too much. I was, though, extremely upset when I read whay Baha'i says about homosexuality. To me, frankly and with all do respect, it contradicts the central teaching of Baha'i--that there's beauty in unity and diversity--and I would hope that that means all aspects of diversity. I can't deal with the concept of somehow I'm spiritually deprived--for lack of a better term, because of something as natural as my sexuality. I was very emotionally messed up when I was first struggling with my sexuality because I was raised in a Christian household, and I refuse to go back to that--not for Jesus, and not for Baha'u'llah (again, with all do respect). So, I've come to the conclusion that I'm a Unitarian Universalist Baha'i, with Baha'i being the foundation of my beliefs, and I just add and subtract where I deem necessary.

Okay. Now that I did that over-drawn introduction, I have some questions. I've been reading a lot of the past entries, and you guys give amazing answers--which is definately excellent.

Could someone explain to me what a covenant-breaker is? I read about it in that book, but I still don't understand it.

I read somewhere that Baha'is shouldn't be political active. Is this true and if so, could someone elaborate on it? As you can tell from my icon and userinfo, I'm very politically active.

Is there anywhere where I can read the Holy Scriptures online? I read about the Ocean program in here, but, unfortunately, I'm in the computer lab on camppus so I can't download anything. And if at all possible, is there a site with them written in just plain English? I can read the "thou" and "ye" stuff, it's just a lot easier the other way.

Thanks! Oh yeah, my favorite Baha'i passage (thus far) is on my userinfo. =)

x-posted to ljbahai

8 comments|post comment

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